Hi and thank you.

[Pheonix-Team-vIx]

I could not really see any where on the forum to post introductions so I have made one here, if it is in the wrong place then please remove it as needed.

My name is Pheonix real name Larry. (yes I know how to correctly spell phoenix but my user name was picked as a private joke between a old friend and my self, and it just stuck so I kept it).

First let me say that I am not a software developer / coder, but I am very familiar with Enigma2 based satellite receivers (STB's) and their operating systems.

I am a senior member of and beta tester for a small amateur coding group based primarily in the uk (we also have members throughout Europe and even one Aussie on the team) by the name of OpenViX who produce Enigma2 images for a whole range of STB's including one that is very closely related to your own Beyonwiz t3. I am not here to entice users onto other images as I understand that Beyonwiz like most STB's manufacturers have their own factory image albeit it based on another or poach members for my own forum, I am just here as a life long satellite nerd and I will happily help you as much as possible where ever and when ever I can.

I would also like to give my personal thanks to the forum staff and those users who assisted in getting the GEO restrictions lifted from my account so that I could freely access the forum.

So thats me. once again thank you and I look forward to getting to know some of you a little bit better and helping out when I can.

[MrQuade]

Hi and welcome to the Beyonwiz boards! I think it will be a bonus to have someone with an outside perspective of the Enigma2 OS with knowledge of its evolution and history and use in other markets.

I just feel I should highlight something I have noticed in some of your posts. You have mentioned a few times that the Enigma2 based PVRs in Europe and elsewhere have been in use for many years and are considered a more "enthusiast" PVR which have historically required a lot of user investment to get working correctly.

The thing about the T3 here in Australia, is that it has been marketed and sold by Beyonwiz as any regular end-user PVR appliance much like the rest of its PVR line. Beyonwiz in Australia is (from my perspective) known as a small PVR manufacturer that has made a series of PVRs that are both simple to use yet feature-packed and relatively powerful.

Now as far as an end-user mum-and-dad device, the T3 falls frustratingly short of that ideal. Several users on this board have been very frustrated by the rough edges in the Enigma2 experience and may react in a less than kind fashion to any suggestion that they should expect a less than polished experience from the T3.

I think it is awkward, as Beyonwiz seems to have entered the Enigma2 world at a point where the OS is making the transition from enthusiast niche product to so close to being something you can give to a non-enthusiast and expect them to use it like something from Sony/LG/Samsung/etc.....

Just a heads up on that one anyway. Personally, I am a tinkerer and am very happy with my T3, and appreciate what you are saying about the state of the Enigma2 ecosystem.

The other thing is that you seem to be replying to some months-old threads here and there. Since the T3 is new to market, it has undergone several very rapid iterations since its launch earlier this year, some of those old threads are no longer relevant. Sometimes replying to the very old threads may not be a productive use of your time, as the users have often moved on from that particular issue, or the issue at hand has already been addressed.

We'd love to hear from you if there are any issues listed in the "Bugs and Feature Requests" forum that you recognise or can identify as issues that have already been tackled and solved by other Enigma2 developers.

[Pheonix-Team-vIx]

The thing about the T3 here in Australia, is that it has been marketed and sold by Beyonwiz as any regular end-user PVR appliance much like the rest of its PVR line.

Without wanting to offend Beyonwiz and knowing that I may be stepping on a few toes here. In my opinion Beyonwiz have gotten it totally wrong in this respect, Yes Enigma2 has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years and a lot of that has to do with some very clever people such as Andy Black of the ViX image automating and improving a lot of the processes which required constant user interaction, but a Enigma2 based receiver is far from plug and play and in my opinion that is not going to change any time soon, if ever. I dont wish to discourage any of the users here who have bought this receiver expecting something else because I honestly would not use any other platform but if beyonwiz are expecting this to be a system they can just sell and expect it to work for the life of the receiver trouble free, they are dreaming.

Now as far as an end-user mum-and-dad device, the T3 falls frustratingly short of that ideal. Several users on this board have been very frustrated by the rough edges in the Enigma2 experience and may react in a less than kind fashion to any suggestion that they should expect a less than polished experience from the T3.

Sadly that is as I said above a failing of Beyonwiz in my opinion, Enigma2 is a very powerful OS but it is not suitable for every one, especially those who just want to plug the receiver in and use it like they would a closed source product such as a samsung, sony, panasonic, etc etc etc.

The other thing is that you seem to be replying to some months-old threads here and there. Since the T3 is new to market, it has undergone several very rapid iterations since its launch earlier this year, some of those old threads are no longer relevant. Sometimes replying to the very old threads may not be a productive use of your time, as the users have often moved on from that particular issue, or the issue at hand has already been addressed.

Yes I have replied to some older threads, but many of those issues are ones that will continue to be present for the lifetime of Enigma2 and always have been.

[simoncasey]

The other thing is that you seem to be replying to some months-old threads here and there. Since the T3 is new to market, it has undergone several very rapid iterations since its launch earlier this year, some of those old threads are no longer relevant. Sometimes replying to the very old threads may not be a productive use of your time, as the users have often moved on from that particular issue, or the issue at hand has already been addressed.

Yes I have replied to some older threads, but many of those issues are ones that will continue to be present for the lifetime of Enigma2 and always have been.

Yes, but it still can be very annoying.

[Pheonix-Team-vIx]

The other thing is that you seem to be replying to some months-old threads here and there. Since the T3 is new to market, it has undergone several very rapid iterations since its launch earlier this year, some of those old threads are no longer relevant. Sometimes replying to the very old threads may not be a productive use of your time, as the users have often moved on from that particular issue, or the issue at hand has already been addressed.

Yes I have replied to some older threads, but many of those issues are ones that will continue to be present for the lifetime of Enigma2 and always have been.

Yes, but it still can be very annoying.

It's still information that a general user will at some point need.

for example until I came onto this forum there was no mention at all of how to setup a channel list (bouquet) outside of the receiver. Now granted the user this machine appears to be target towards probably dont want to have to use a PC to setup or maintain their receiver, but to create a full channel list via the receivers remote control can take hours, where as using a dedicated piece of software on a PC such as DBE (Dreambox Edit) will take you minutes, while enabling you to keep a backup of any changes you make for use at a later date, when the receiver suddenly decides to play silly bugger which it will do.

[simoncasey]

The thing about the T3 here in Australia, is that it has been marketed and sold by Beyonwiz as any regular end-user PVR appliance much like the rest of its PVR line. Beyonwiz in Australia is (from my perspective) known as a small PVR manufacturer that has made a series of PVRs that are both simple to use yet feature-packed and relatively powerful.

Now as far as an end-user mum-and-dad device, the T3 falls frustratingly short of that ideal. Several users on this board have been very frustrated by the rough edges in the Enigma2 experience and may react in a less than kind fashion to any suggestion that they should expect a less than polished experience from the T3.

I think we all also talk about the Beyonwiz DP series with selective memory. It was a great PVR but it doesn't take much reading of the old DP forums to see similar issues back then as we are getting with the T3. I really think it took the DP series 2 years to become a great pvr that didn't need constant firmware updates.

From my perspective, I was a bit disappointed in the the T3. Both because of the experience of DP-P1 meaning that I was surprised that with the T3, it feels like we're back at the start of the DP journey again. Also, as it is based on the Enigma2 PVRs that have been around for many years, it seems odd that there are so many annoying little bugs, even if it is an enthusiast developed machine.

Anyway, as per the DP series, this is an amazingly active forum where people are willing to put in the effort to search out bugs, help other users and improve the interface.

[simoncasey]

The other thing is that you seem to be replying to some months-old threads here and there. Since the T3 is new to market, it has undergone several very rapid iterations since its launch earlier this year, some of those old threads are no longer relevant. Sometimes replying to the very old threads may not be a productive use of your time, as the users have often moved on from that particular issue, or the issue at hand has already been addressed.

Yes I have replied to some older threads, but many of those issues are ones that will continue to be present for the lifetime of Enigma2 and always have been.

Yes, but it still can be very annoying.

It's still information that a general user will at some point need.

for example until I came onto this forum there was no mention at all of how to setup a channel list (bouquet) outside of the receiver. Now granted the user this machine appears to be target towards probably dont want to have to use a PC to setup or maintain their receiver, but to create a full channel list via the receivers remote control can take hours, where as using a dedicated piece of software on a PC such as DBE (Dreambox Edit) will take you minutes, while enabling you to keep a backup of any changes you make for use at a later date, when the receiver suddenly decides to play silly bugger which it will do.

I'm not with you on this at all. It took me under 5 minutes to create my list of favorites in my bouquet. And backing up my settings saves it.

Also, in terms of old posts on forums, I personally think that if the information is useful, it's better creating a new topic on a useful feature rather than adding something to the end of a old post.

[Pheonix-Team-vIx]

Also, as it is based on the Enigma2 PVRs that have been around for many years, it seems odd that there are so many annoying little bugs, even if it is an enthusiast developed machine.

I dont know if you have previous experience with Enigma2 but by it's very nature, every update, every plugin, every skin you download, brings the possibility of introducing new bugs that were not there before, and sometimes reviving old previously fixed bugs. Even parking the receiver on one image and never touching it other than to watch TV and record movies etc is not enough to guarantee fault free usage. The second you think you have every thing exactly to your liking you can bet your arse (sorry if I offend any one with my language) that something will go wrong with the image, regardless of how thorough the devs are who produce it.

Dont get me wrong I own 12 different Enigma2 based machines, some less powerful than the T3 some vastly more powerful and they all from time to time suffer various issues.

[Pheonix-Team-vIx]

The other thing is that you seem to be replying to some months-old threads here and there. Since the T3 is new to market, it has undergone several very rapid iterations since its launch earlier this year, some of those old threads are no longer relevant. Sometimes replying to the very old threads may not be a productive use of your time, as the users have often moved on from that particular issue, or the issue at hand has already been addressed.

Yes I have replied to some older threads, but many of those issues are ones that will continue to be present for the lifetime of Enigma2 and always have been.

Yes, but it still can be very annoying.

It's still information that a general user will at some point need.

for example until I came onto this forum there was no mention at all of how to setup a channel list (bouquet) outside of the receiver. Now granted the user this machine appears to be target towards probably dont want to have to use a PC to setup or maintain their receiver, but to create a full channel list via the receivers remote control can take hours, where as using a dedicated piece of software on a PC such as DBE (Dreambox Edit) will take you minutes, while enabling you to keep a backup of any changes you make for use at a later date, when the receiver suddenly decides to play silly bugger which it will do.

I'm not with you on this at all. It took me under 5 minutes to create my list of favorites in my bouquet. And backing up my settings saves it.

Also, in terms of old posts on forums, I personally think that if the information is useful, it's better creating a new topic on a useful feature rather than adding something to the end of a old post.

Try doing that when you have several thousand channels to organize on several dozen different satellite locations. I know that you dont have the same type of satellite coverage we in Europe do, even in the UK we have over 1000 TV channels broadcast via our local satellite network (Sky uk).

I personally can receiver almost all satellites from 68 east to 45 west and that covers at least 5 thousand channels, thats a lot to have to organize with a remote control.

[simoncasey]

Try doing that when you have several thousand channels to organize on several dozen different satellite locations. I know that you dont have the same type of satellite coverage we in Europe do, even in the UK we have over 1000 TV channels broadcast via our local satellite network (Sky uk).

I personally can receiver almost all satellites from 68 east to 45 west and that covers at least 5 thousand channels, thats a lot to have to organize with a remote control.

Oh, I see. We're not using the T3 for satellite here and have max 20 channels, so probably not relevant for us.

[MrQuade]

And that is why that information on how to configure bouquets is not that useful to a T3 user. We can receive a maximum of 30-40 services here via FTA, of which about 20 contain actual useful broadcasts. It doesn't take long for us to configure this via remote.

As you have seen in other parts, the biggest gripe about bouquets that many users here have is that they would like to retain the services original LCNs as they like to change channels directly using the number pad. It's not something that bothers me and I doubt it is something that is relevant in the overseas markets where you do have access to hundreds of services.

[Pheonix-Team-vIx]

As you have seen in other parts, the biggest gripe about bouquets that many users here have is that they would like to retain the services original LCNs as they like to change channels directly using the number pad. It's not something that bothers me and I doubt it is something that is relevant in the overseas markets where you do have access to hundreds of services.

Not so, in our image we have ABM or AutoBouquetsMaker which for sky uk fully automates the process of building a channel list from the providers own data stream, this is setup to generate channel lists that exactly mirror the lineup of a official receiver including the channel numbering system. We have adapted it to also work on out cable and terrestrial services too.

The code can be found here if it's of any use to you.

Code: Select all

https://github.com/oe-alliance/oe-alliance-plugins/tree/2.3/AutoBouquetsMaker

[MrQuade]

Cool, thanks for that! I did see you mention ABM earlier and didn't connect the dots.

Also, please don't take my suggestions as being critical, you are indeed very welcome here. I was just interested in painting the picture of our local landscape for you so to speak.

[Wiz HQ]

The Beyonwiz image (for local Australian DTV environment) has come a long long way from the base Enigma 2, we with the help of the Beta testers and greater community have developed a product that can slot into any lounge room, even Mums and Dads, in fact we have grandmas and grandpas that are using the T3 quite harmoniously.

The UK / Euro market and environment is so much different from the Aust market and really can't be compared, with all due respect I think that Pheonix-Team-vix comments should be taken with a grain of salt, he has not used our Software Image and can't use it in this environment unless he comes to Aus or has a stream generator. The Beyonwiz T3 image v enigma 2 base image is chalk and cheese, for use in Aus the Enigma2 base will not work well or even at all in most areas of Australia, you would have to be an enthusiast to put up with it for longer than 10mins, just ask the early Beta testers who thought that we where making a sick joke when we said that this was our new product.

It was our goal to deliver a product that would cover all genres from Granpas to the tech savy and I know that we have delivered as I talk to both ends every day, and we have not finished yet. I agree that there are a small % that have not adapted but there are many variables as to why they may not have adapted, most that I have dealt with personally have been using old firmware versions.

[peteru]

The satellite heritage is now tantamount to unwanted baggage when streamlining the product for the Australian DVB-T market. The development focus here has been solely on Australian DVB-T features, even if it means ditching satellite compatibility. There are plenty of 3rd party images available for those users that want to install satellite tuners. Satellite market for 3rd party boxes is pretty much non-existent here.

Yes, there are lots of rough edges on enigma2, but the local development focus has been on free to air DVB-T usability. That's why we have worked on features such as improved timeshift, better help system, better video mode switching, robust and fast DVB-T tuning code and many other things. Most development is driven by user needs and in the last 6-9 months the product has improved tremendously. We're not done yet!

We're also looking at the development and software build / packaging / delivery model. The current practices employed by most enigma2 development teams are suitable for dynamic development model at the bleeding edge. Most components are built from the most up to date revisions of the source code at the time of the build - bugs and all. This is not a great model for generating stable images. As far as I am aware, no enigma2 development team has addressed the need to generate stable images, where you have the option of changing just one package and generating a new image with only those changes.

I'd be happy to hear about anyone who does have a reproducible build environment and how it works - if you have come across this in your long experience, please let me know.

[Pheonix-Team-vIx]

Please dont misunderstand my intentions, I respect and applaud your attempt to bring Enigma2 to a more mainstream market, but I do also believe it to be very naive if you think you can give a Enigma2 based receiver to any just one from a child to a O.AP and expect them to be able to fully operate it trouble free as you would a closed source product.

[Wiz HQ]

Please dont misunderstand my intentions, I respect and applaud your attempt to bring Enigma2 to a more mainstream market, but I do also believe it to be very naive if you think you can give a Enigma2 based receiver to any just one from a child to a O.AP and expect them to be able to fully operate it trouble free as you would a closed source product.

Yes I understand your intentions but you a commenting on Enigma 2 and not our Firmware Image which you have not seen or used, my 7yo comes home from School everyday and switches to ABC and even watches movies via Dreamplex plugin.. I think that you need to just understand that all your experience with enigma 2 and other receivers may not apply to the Beyonwiz Image.

[cwiggles]

Please dont misunderstand my intentions, I respect and applaud your attempt to bring Enigma2 to a more mainstream market, but I do also believe it to be very naive if you think you can give a Enigma2 based receiver to any just one from a child to a O.AP and expect them to be able to fully operate it trouble free as you would a closed source product.

Yes I understand your intentions but you a commenting on Enigma 2 and not our Firmware Image which you have not seen or used, my 7yo comes home from School everyday and switches to ABC and even watches movies via Dreamplex plugin.. I think that you need to just understand that all your experience with enigma 2 and other receivers may not apply to the Beyonwiz Image.

At the risk of coming across inflammatory (not my intention) , I have a VU+ DUO2 running OpenATV and I can tell you, you would be hard pressed to see any significant difference between the OE Alliance E2 image and the T3's image. The menu's are arranged differently, but apart from that, from a end users perspective there is little to distinguish a T3 running their f/w and the VU+ DUO2 running OpenATV or VU+'s own image.

I know there has been a lot of work done to address issues in the T3's firmware buy the various devs and beta testers and they are all to be congratulated on this, it is by no means a trivial undertaking from what I understand, however, the fact remains that the T3's image is Engima/Enigma2 in it's roots. I think that was all Pheonix was trying to say.

I'll pull my head back in now.

Craig

[Wiz HQ]

you would be hard pressed to see any significant difference between the OE Alliance E2 image and the T3's image. The menu's are arranged differently, but apart from that, from a end users perspective there is little to distinguish a T3 running their f/w and the VU+ DUO2 running OpenATV or VU+'s own image.
Craig

That is just not true. We do have a Vu+Duo2 and there is miles between them. Firstly I am interested in how did you come to this point of view Craig if you do not have a T3? Sure the structure is the same as it is built on the same OS but there is so much that is not the same in the code and drivers. It all starts from when you power up, the set up Wizard has been built for Aust DVBT, the VU you have to jump through hoops, pick your video output type, your country, the tuner type (multiple times) the language and I guarantee that with the full scan that takes 5mins that it will not work in all of Australia. Plus forget about LCNs, the VU does not support them here..

It is like saying the Samsung Galaxy and any Chinese Android phone are the same because they both are Android, it is just not the case. I don't mind people having opinions, that's fine and we encourage it, but you guys are making assumptions and you don't have a T3 to measure off, the information you are posting is just not correct and I don't want our users to be misinformed. Unless you want to get a T3 and then comment on how they are the same maybe just hold your thoughts for now and instead of pushing your point of view maybe just turn it into a question, we are only too happy to share..

Wiz HQ

[simoncasey]

you would be hard pressed to see any significant difference between the OE Alliance E2 image and the T3's image. The menu's are arranged differently, but apart from that, from a end users perspective there is little to distinguish a T3 running their f/w and the VU+ DUO2 running OpenATV or VU+'s own image.
Craig

That is just not true. We do have a Vu+Duo2 and there is miles between them. Firstly I am interested in how did you come to this point of view Craig if you do not have a T3? Sure the structure is the same as it is built on the same OS but there is so much that is not the same in the code and drivers. It all starts from when you power up, the set up Wizard has been built for Aust DVBT, the VU you have to jump through hoops, pick your video output type, your country, the tuner type (multiple times) the language and I guarantee that with the full scan that takes 5mins that it will not work in all of Australia. Plus forget about LCNs, the VU does not support them here..

It is like saying the Samsung Galaxy and any Chinese Android phone are the same because they both are Android, it is just not the case. I don't mind people having opinions, that's fine and we encourage it, but you guys are making assumptions and you don't have a T3 to measure off, the information you are posting is just not correct and I don't want our users to be misinformed. Unless you want to get a T3 and then comment on how they are the same maybe just hold your thoughts for now and instead of pushing your point of view maybe just turn it into a question, we are only too happy to share..

Wiz HQ

I'd be a bit more careful in posts like this in future. If I was Craig, I'd be boxing up the T3 that you've accused him of not having and shipping it back for a full refund.

[tezza007]

Probably going by his signature, where there's no T3 mentioned. There's a few members that haven't included it there though

[simoncasey]

I don't know if Craig does or doesn't have a t3 but he is a Beyonwiz customer and has been on this forum for many years so representatives of BW should be careful about how they respond to customers on user forums. Other potential and current customers tend to take note of that.

[Wiz HQ]

I'd be a bit more careful in posts like this in future. If I was Craig, I'd be boxing up the T3 that you've accused him of not having and shipping it back for a full refund.

My comments are not meant to offend I am simply setting Craig and Phoenix straight so that everyone in the Beyonwiz forum gets the correct information. I assume that Craig does not have a T3 as I remember him posting to say that he upgraded from the S1 and purchased a different model.

[cwiggles]

you would be hard pressed to see any significant difference between the OE Alliance E2 image and the T3's image. The menu's are arranged differently, but apart from that, from a end users perspective there is little to distinguish a T3 running their f/w and the VU+ DUO2 running OpenATV or VU+'s own image.
Craig

That is just not true. We do have a Vu+Duo2 and there is miles between them. Firstly I am interested in how did you come to this point of view Craig if you do not have a T3? Sure the structure is the same as it is built on the same OS but there is so much that is not the same in the code and drivers. It all starts from when you power up, the set up Wizard has been built for Aust DVBT, the VU you have to jump through hoops, pick your video output type, your country, the tuner type (multiple times) the language and I guarantee that with the full scan that takes 5mins that it will not work in all of Australia. Plus forget about LCNs, the VU does not support them here..

It is like saying the Samsung Galaxy and any Chinese Android phone are the same because they both are Android, it is just not the case. I don't mind people having opinions, that's fine and we encourage it, but you guys are making assumptions and you don't have a T3 to measure off, the information you are posting is just not correct and I don't want our users to be misinformed. Unless you want to get a T3 and then comment on how they are the same maybe just hold your thoughts for now and instead of pushing your point of view maybe just turn it into a question, we are only too happy to share..

Wiz HQ

Hi WizHQ,

I'll be first to admit I have not sit through a T3 initial setup, so I cannot compare it to what the DUO2 does, and you are right, there are quite a few steps to go through, but not too arduous, however if you have made it even simpler then full credit to you and your devs because I admit it is not something I would put my parents through, I would have to hand hold them through the process. That aside though, after spending some time on a friends T3 I still think at a GUI level there is not a lot difference overall, but that is just my opinion from the time I have spent on it. I am not trying to belittle the T3 or what efforts been done to improve the T3 user experience, and I am sorry if that's how my post came across.

Regards,

Craig

[Wiz HQ]

Hi WizHQ,

I'll be first to admit I have not sit through a T3 initial setup, so I cannot compare it to what the DUO2 does, and you are right, there are quite a few steps to go through, but not too arduous, however if you have made it even simpler then full credit to you and your devs because I admit it is not something I would put my parents through, I would have to hand hold them through the process. That aside though, after spending some time on a friends T3 I still think at a GUI level there is not a lot difference overall, but that is just my opinion from the time I have spent on it. I am not trying to belittle the T3 or what efforts been done to improve the T3 user experience, and I am sorry if that's how my post came across.

Regards,

Craig

No worries Craig, I definitely did not think that you where being negative in anyway, I just have a strong opinion on this (as you can probably tell) and I could go through tons of differences between our Firmware and others but it would not be productive and I have heaps to do.. Sorry if I seemed abrupt it was definitely not my intention, I think it is just a matter of lost in translation...

[prl]

Hi, spammer caezar!

I hope you enjoy your very short sojourn on the forum