Beyonwiz T4 set top box suddenly cannot see any channels (and 1 tuner disappeared)

[peteru]

I've seen a similar issue, but only when a second tuner is activated. Record only on A or only on B and everything is fine. Once you ask both tuners to deliver data, they both go into a mode where they work for a few seconds, then drop down to zero, come back and the cycle repeats. I'm fairly confident it is not a temperature issue, since I have four big heat sinks (one per regulator) and they are well attached. It may be board damage or perhaps the capacitor/inductor combo on the motherboard is not compatible with the replacement regulators. I opted for higher specification regulator. I guess when I have some time, I should pull out the datasheets for both old and new parts and see if there are differences.

[prl]

It may be board damage ...

That's exactly what I've been wondering about michal's continuing problem with his T4's tuners.

[stevebow]

but I think I measured 0v across L56 and L61..

Don't measure voltage *across* the inductors. The inductors have a very low resistance and thus have very little measured voltage across them.

Measure from one side of the inductors (e.g. closest to the tuners) with respect to ground/chassis.

[michal]

So I finally had a chance to look at this again.

The voltage on the left hand side seems fine right from the outset but on right hand side I'm getting around 0.8V between the inductor and ground.

There is some damage to the board and the ground plane is partially exposed but at the regulator itself everything SEEMS fine as far as I can tell..

IMG_5596.jpg

(250.5 KiB) Not downloaded yet

Is there somewhere else I could measure to see if maybe there is a short or a trace has been damaged?

Regards,
Michal

[michal]

Bueller? Bueller?

[peteru]

Warkus?

[stevebow]

Is there somewhere else I could measure to see if maybe there is a short or a trace has been damaged?

I see you replaced the LM1117 on the 21/05 and got all 4 tuners back again, so it looks like you have a problem elsewhere.

To check the regulators though, you could measure the voltages at each regulator pin directly. I wouldn't expect that LM1117 to go bad already, but worth checking again anyway.

For each pair of tuners:

LHS regulator is the 1.25V tuner supply (LM1085):

• Pin 1 - 0V (GND)
• Pin 2/tab - 1.25V
• Pin 3 - 3.3V

RHS regulator is the 3.3V tuner supply (LM1117):

• Pin 1 - 0V (GND)
• Pin 2/tab - 3.3V
• Pin 3 - 5V

In reality the 1.25V pin will be a little lower e.g. around 1.21-1.23V, but that seems to be fine.

You didn't mention which side of the inductor you measured on - there is a possibility the inductor has gone open circuit, or the inductor has a dry solder joint and therefore not connected properly to the PCB - it's possible this would be intermittent and not show up until the PCB has been warmed up by the nearby regulators i.e. thermal expansion opening a bad joint. It wouldn't be a bad idea to redo the inductor's solder joints just to be sure, then measure for continuity through the inductor.

[michal]

Thanks for the tips!

The system is now only showing tuners A and B again and those are the only regulators that are heating up. C and D regulators are not heating up. Both regulators for C and D have the correct voltages but ground to the outside of the inductor is about 0.76V while it is about 3.3V on the ones heating up.

While clearly there is something wrong with the second set of tuners I do not understand why the first 2 aren't working either :/

[michal]

For what it's worth the resistance on both inductors (measured in-place) jumps around a bit before settling on 0 ohm.

[michal]

Well I guess that's it then :/ The T4 is off to a scrapheap in the garage.

I've not been able to make any sort of progress and I'm out of ideas.

Was good while it lasted but I'm very disappointed with how quickly it died. The plasma TV it's connected to is almost 13 years old and still going strong. It doesn't support h264 though so that sucks.

Thanks everyone for your help. I thought there might be a chance to fix it and it ALMOST worked.

[MrQuade]

Thanks everyone for your help. I thought there might be a chance to fix it and it ALMOST worked.

There is still $100 and a trip to Warkus on the table....

[michal]

There is still $100 and a trip to Warkus on the table....

Hopefully in the future.

I couldn't even afford the voltage regulators and needed a benefactor to fund those.
There's not even a guarantee that it can be fixed with $100 :/ I'll pack it up nicely and make sure there is a lot of silica gel to absorb any moisture.

Maybe things will turn round before too long.

[prl]

The breakdown of the thermal cement on the regulators doesn't only (or even necessarily) damage the regulators. It can also damage tracks on the PC board. That damage is not always repairable, but it often is.

[michal]

Hi,

I'm ready to try to have this fixed by a professional.

Does anyone know the best way to contact Warkus?

And can anyone recommend couriers from Brisbane to Perth that are affordable?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Michal

P.S. Unless you guys would recommend a Beyonwiz V2 PVR Media Box as an alternative?

[Grumpy_Geoff]

Does anyone know the best way to contact Warkus?

And can anyone recommend couriers from Brisbane to Perth that are affordable?

http://decisivecomputersolutions.com.au/contact.html
Mark can advise on couriers too,

[MrQuade]

P.S. Unless you guys would recommend a Beyonwiz V2 PVR Media Box as an alternative?

The V2 is nice, and is capable of 4K output and can decode HEVC video. It doesnt need a fan, and can be equipped with purely solid state storage which means it runs quietly (barring any coil whine).
It also lets you run Kodi, which is a bit of a game changer to the previous Beyonwiz units.
It doesn't have an HDMI-input or an internal harddisk, and relies on an external tuner to bring you up to a total of 4. So those factors might put you off.

Beyonwiz are doing a $80 trade-in deal atm with a free return-shipping satchel, so that might be an enticement for you.

The T4 however, is a more mature product with fewer new-model "quirks", and getting it repaired will be cheaper than a new PVR.

[michal]

Thanks! That's very helpful.

While a newer machine that's more capable would be Bice Kodi is not really something that I need as I already use an AppleTV with Plex for what Kodi could provide and all the external attachments would indeed drive me wild. Besides that the plasma TV it would be connected to can't even do 1080p so 4K would be wasted on it.

I've sent Mark an email so hopefully he can do his magic and I can keep using the T4 for at least another 5 years.

[Paul_oz53]

Mark suggested I use Sendle and in the original box if possible when I spoke to him recently.

I've been too busy to send the T3 yet so can't comment on their service but Mark was happy with them.

[michal]

Thanks. I have NO idea if I still have the original box and do not even remember what it even looked like.
Sendle SEEMS great! Am I reading correctly that a briefcase sized package would be $10.90 to send Brisbane to Perth?

I haven't gotten a reply to the email I sent two days ago.
Does Mark normally respond to email or is that a bad way to reach him?

[Paul_oz53]

Thanks. I have NO idea if I still have the original box and do not even remember what it even looked like.
Sendle SEEMS great! Am I reading correctly that a briefcase sized package would be $10.90 to send Brisbane to Perth?

I haven't gotten a reply to the email I sent two days ago.
Does Mark normally respond to email or is that a bad way to reach him?

He's a bit hit or miss. I prefer to phone him.

I'll planning on sending my T3 next week having just found the box.

[Trial_Master]

I don’t currently have any issues with my T4. Would you recommend being proactive and getting it to Warkus now? Do you send the entire PVR or just the bits he needs?

[Paul_oz53]

I don’t currently have any issues with my T4. Would you recommend being proactive and getting it to Warkus now? Do you send the entire PVR or just the bits he needs?

If it's ok then probably not worth the trouble. Open your unit and inspect for degradation of the heatsink glue.

Mine is revision 2 and doesn't appear to have any degradation. As a precaution ours has a 5v 120mm USB fan sitting over the tuners to fan cool the area. Very quiet.

If degradation is apparent then post the whole unit. Sendle cost me $17 for a T3 to Perth and $23 for a P2 to Canberra

[Trial_Master]

Thanks Paul. I’ll pop the lid open and take a peek over Xmas break.

[peteru]

I disagree with Paul. Don't wait until you see symptoms and it's too late to repair the damage. The T4 is the best unit that Beyonwiz ever made and I doubt that they will ever produce anything better. Keep your T4 working as best as it can for as long as you can. You won't be able to replace it easily and repair may not be possible later on.

IMHO, pre-emptive maintenance is very much advised, if Warkus can offer it. A clean, PSU recap and possibly heatsink/regulator replacement should add many years to the service life.

Send the whole unit, possibly with the exception of the HDD.

[Paul_oz53]

I disagree with Paul. Don't wait until you see symptoms and it's too late to repair the damage. The T4 is the best unit that Beyonwiz ever made and I doubt that they will ever produce anything better. Keep your T4 working as best as it can for as long as you can. You won't be able to replace it easily and repair may not be possible later on.

IMHO, pre-emptive maintenance is very much advised, if Warkus can offer it. A clean, PSU recap and possibly heatsink/regulator replacement should add many years to the service life.

Send the whole unit, possibly with the exception of the HDD.

Comparing my rev 2 T4 to Judy's rev 1 which has died, the heatsinks on mine lie flat on the tuner regulators whereas hers are slanted. Also, the cement on hers appears OK but there is a trace of brown visible on the motherboard. There's no visible degradation in mine.

As you say Peter, pre-emptive maintenance will likely extend the product life so its worth the peace of mind if it's done. At the slightest sign of deterioration it should be done.

[Trial_Master]

I disagree with Paul. Don't wait until you see symptoms and it's too late to repair the damage. The T4 is the best unit that Beyonwiz ever made and I doubt that they will ever produce anything better. Keep your T4 working as best as it can for as long as you can. You won't be able to replace it easily and repair may not be possible later on.

IMHO, pre-emptive maintenance is very much advised, if Warkus can offer it. A clean, PSU recap and possibly heatsink/regulator replacement should add many years to the service life.

Send the whole unit, possibly with the exception of the HDD.

Thanks Peter. I might get on the front foot, i love my T4

[Trial_Master]

Hi Peter and Co.

I am taking my T4 offline today to get the preemptive maintenance done to avoid the issues in this thread. I would like to backup all the box settings in case something happens with the harddrive. I have SSH access enabled and would like some advice on what to backup. I have just completed a backup of settings via UI.

From what the back up screen shows i see /etc/enigma2 looks like it needs to be backed up.

Thanks in advance

[prl]

I have SSH access enabled and would like some advice on what to backup. I have just completed a backup of settings via UI.

From what the back up screen shows i see /etc/enigma2 looks like it needs to be backed up.

A settings backup saves a lot more than just the contents of /etc/enigma2.

What you want to save is /media/hdd/backup/beyonwiz/v1/enigma2settingsbackup.tar.gz

[Trial_Master]

That's awesome. Thanks Peter. Much bigger file.

If I ever need to restore that somehow I'll come back to you, it's just a safety net for now.

I'm going to miss my T4

[prl]

If I ever need to restore that somehow I'll come back to you, it's just a safety net for now.

You just need to put it back where you found it, and then restore settings (without saving settings in between).

[Trial_Master]

That's even easier than I thought. I'm assuming I'd need to run the setup wizard and get the box setup as basic defaults then copy and restore the file?

[prl]

It depends on what state the settings are in when you start up. If you have to go through the setup wizard, you can skip a lot of what it wants to do. You won't need to do a service scan, for example.

[Trial_Master]

Ok, thanks for info. Hopefully I don't need to worry about restoring and can just plug it back in again.

[Trial_Master]

Hey Peter, one more question. When i get my T4 back, will i need to delete the old timers on it and Resend All Recordings from ICE or just let it sync and it will sort itself out?

[prl]

Hey Peter, one more question. When i get my T4 back, will i need to delete the old timers on it and Resend All Recordings from ICE or just let it sync and it will sort itself out?

My recommendation is to not delete the timers (that will tell IceTV that you don't want to record those episodes), and just do a "Resend All Recordings" in the IceTV Web pages, then on the T4, MENU>IceTV>Fetch EPG on the T4and update timers now, to ensure that you get the updates immediately. Or do the "Resend All Recordings" while the T4 is shut down (not just in standby) and then restart it.

The IceTV log should then show all the timers that have been (re)sent.

[Trial_Master]

Thank you mate.

[Trial_Master]

Hi all, I’m after a recommendation for a repairer in Brisbane that has experience with the T4. I would like to preemptively fix my device before it has issues. I was booked in with @warkus but he is no longer accepting work. I spoke with him last Friday.

[unilaw]

Hi all

I thought I would ask the question here as it seems the closest to my issue. Suddenly this afternoon when I turned on my T4 the picture was frozen on the channel and I couldn't change to any channel. I did a power off and started again and nothing. I did a scan and no channels could be found.

I tested both the input and output coax and they are fine because I have connected directly to the TV and connected both coax bypassing the T4 and the TV is okay. I removed all coax to the tuners and reseated all. Still no signal so this tells me that there is no passthrough on the tuners as even completely switched off the Beyonwiz T4 or any device in the middle should still pass the signal to the next device.

I cannot work out how to bypass to at least get one tuner to work to allow recording.

[MrQuade]

as even completely switched off the Beyonwiz T4 or any device in the middle should still pass the signal to the next device.

The T4 tubers will not pass a signal of the T4 is switched off. The T4 tuners have active amplifiers that need power.

You don't need to loop the signal through the tuners, you can feed each directly from the wall outlet if you want.

What tuners show up when you open up the "Device Information" on your T4?

I suspect at least tuners A and B have died. You may need to feed signal directly into C in order to get a signal.

However, if you have lost any tuners, then you have suffered the dreaded "regulator failure" and your T4 will likely completely fail of you run it like that for much longer.

In that case, you should investigate repair or replacement options.

[unilaw]

as even completely switched off the Beyonwiz T4 or any device in the middle should still pass the signal to the next device.

The T4 tubers will not pass a signal of the T4 is switched off. The T4 tuners have active amplifiers that need power.

You don't need to loop the signal through the tuners, you can feed each directly from the wall outlet if you want.

What tuners show up when you open up the "Device Information" on your T4?

I suspect at least tuners A and B have died. You may need to feed signal directly into C in order to get a signal.

However, if you have lost any tuners, then you have suffered the dreaded "regulator failure" and your T4 will likely completely fail of you run it like that for much longer.

In that case, you should investigate repair or replacement options.

Most devices I have used in the past do not require the device in the middle to be powered on. Besides that even turned on there is no passthrough

Even powered on when I changed to my TV which the coax passes from the Antenna via the T4 to the TV, the TV would not receive a signal until I connected the Antenna without the T4 in passthrough.

All tuners are shown

I would like to know if there are any repairers in the Wollongong area if possible?

[MrQuade]

Most devices I have used in the past do not require the device in the middle to be powered on. Besides that even turned on there is no passthrough

Many are like that. But not ones with active passthrough like all the T, U and V series PVRs.

Even powered on when I changed to my TV which the coax passes from the Antenna via the T4 to the TV, the TV would not receive a signal until I connected the Antenna without the T4 in passthrough.

Ok, so its still likely one of the tuners has gone byebye.

Disconnect the antenna from Tuner A, and the passthrough between tuners B and C.

Then connect the antenna straight to C.

See if the TV passthrough is working then.

Set your T4's preferred tuner to Tuner C, and change channel to force the T4 to use Tuner C. See if you get a picture on the T4 then.

[unilaw]

Most devices I have used in the past do not require the device in the middle to be powered on. Besides that even turned on there is no passthrough

Many are like that. But not ones with active passthrough like all the T, U and V series PVRs.

Even powered on when I changed to my TV which the coax passes from the Antenna via the T4 to the TV, the TV would not receive a signal until I connected the Antenna without the T4 in passthrough.

Ok, so its still likely one of the tuners has gone byebye.

Disconnect the antenna from Tuner A, and the passthrough between tuners B and C.

Then connect the antenna straight to C.

See if the TV passthrough is working then.

Set your T4's preferred tuner to Tuner C, and change channel to force the T4 to use Tuner C. See if you get a picture on the T4 then.

I did all this and nothing.

I think it's failing. All 4 tuners were there but now only 2. Strangely there is signal strength showing on A but when trying the cables nothing. However I am getting passthrough from C and D to the TV but noting on the T4 itself. I did notice what looks like brown fluid leakage from the 2 chips behind the tuners. So I believe this is the problem.

[stevebow]

I did notice what looks like brown fluid leakage from the 2 chips behind the tuners.

The white rubbery stuff is adhesive, attaching the heatsinks to the regulators underneath them. Unfortunately this particular adhesive tends to deteriorate over time and seems to leak a brown tar-like substance that is corrosive and damages the PCB and nearby components.

prl had an extreme case of this a few years back:

Beyonwiz T4 set top box suddenly cannot see any channels (and 1 tuner disappeared)

If you are interested in the nitty gritty technical details:

T4 - Tuners A/B have died

When this brown goo appears, conventional advice has been to stop using the T4 and get it repaired right away. I believe the only place still repairing BW devices are NASA Electronics in Sydney.

[unilaw]

I did notice what looks like brown fluid leakage from the 2 chips behind the tuners.

The white rubbery stuff is adhesive, attaching the heatsinks to the regulators underneath them. Unfortunately this particular adhesive tends to deteriorate over time and seems to leak a brown tar-like substance that is corrosive and damages the PCB and nearby components.

prl had an extreme case of this a few years back:

Beyonwiz T4 set top box suddenly cannot see any channels (and 1 tuner disappeared)

If you are interested in the nitty gritty technical details:

T4 - Tuners A/B have died

When this brown goo appears, conventional advice has been to stop using the T4 and get it repaired right away. I believe the only place still repairing BW devices are NASA Electronics in Sydney.

Thanks Steve.

Well it's impossible to go anywhere at the moment. Plus it would be too expensive.


I'm waiting on support to contact. I have not had an answer in over a week an want to trade it in for a new V2. Have they stopped using that glue? Seems faulty to me if it is designed with a glue that causes damage.

Besides I want to upgrade. It seems that all of the Sydney office is away and not taking calls or emails.

[Trial_Master]

My T4 is having some strange issues recording 7HD. It pixelates, freezes and has really short recording lengths. I think it was using tuner c on each occasion. Is there any testing I can do to determine what’s going on?

I’ve never really taped 7HD before so not sure if this issue is new or not. Under Information, Devices I have 4 detected tuners.

EDIT: Ok, I tried changing the preferred tuner setting and C is dead, D is constantly freezing and breaking up. Both A & B are fine. Is the only repairer one I’ve previously read about in Sydney? I tried some local shops earlier this year when I was trying to be proactive but I couldn’t get anyone wanting to take on the job.

[Trial_Master]

I sent my T4 to NASA Electronics on Friday. It's out for delivery today. The gentleman I spoke to on the phone last Thursday said he could fix it after explaining C & D tuners were the issue. I think the phone call was like 3 mins. He was aware of the issue so made it very easy.

Looking forward to getting it back. I have a T2 but have had to cut some recordings and use catch up services due to lack of tuners. First world problems right?

[Twizzle]

I sent my T4 to NASA Electronics on Friday. It's out for delivery today. The gentleman I spoke to on the phone last Thursday said he could fix it after explaining C & D tuners were the issue. I think the phone call was like 3 mins. He was aware of the issue so made it very easy.

Looking forward to getting it back. I have a T2 but have had to cut some recordings and use catch up services due to lack of tuners. First world problems right?

I must say that when 2 of the tuners on my T4 went, it sat in the cupboard for a while and as I had already bought another U4 I just let the T4 sit there but then I thought, well you never know there might come a time when no one is able to fix it.

So having read on this forum that T series & U series were the apex of the Beyonwiz machines, I contacted NASA and they were terrific. Did the job for a reasonable price and posted back quickly.

[IanL-S]

Yes, Nasa gives excellent service, not only for Beyonwiz but Topfield as well.

Ian

[Trial_Master]

Absolutely agree with above comments. I just received an email that the T4 has had 4 x Tuner Regulators replaced and is ready to ship back.

Very easy and super efficient company to deal with.