Recordings and timer padding.prl wrote:Posted by prl - I thought this warranted a post of its own, It can be linked to from the FAQ, as it may need updating as FW changes.
Tuners, services and recordings.
All Beyonwiz PVRs, except the DP-H1, have two tuners. That means they can receive all the services from each of two channels at once. Australian digital TV has all of each broadcaster's services on one channel. For example, ABC1, ABC2, ABC HD, DiG Radio and DiG Jazz are all carried on one one channel; Nine, Nine HD and GO! will be carried on another. If you are using a service on a particular channel, to watch live or to record, all of the services on that channel are available as digital streams.
That means, for example, that if you are recording both GO! and ABC2 on a twin-tuner Beyonwiz, then you can watch (or listen to) any of Nine, Nine HD, GO!, ABC1, ABC2, ABC HD, DiG Radio or DiG Jazz, but no other services. If you record two services from the same channel, for example, ABC1 and ABC2, you can watch any service from any channel.
If you are making any recording on a DP-H1, you can only watch services on the same channel as the service you're recording. If you're recording Seven Digital, then you can only watch Seven Digital, Seven HD or 7TWO. However, the DP-H1 can make two simultaneous recordings, provided they're on the same channel, for example, SBS ONE and SBS TWO.
I use "service" and "channel" here as described in peteru's note in the Reception FAQ
Setting timer padding
TV programs in Australia frequently don't commence at their scheduled time in the published programs. Most often they start late, but some multicast HD programms start earlier than scheduled.
To help with this, the Beyonwiz lets you set "padding" around a timer, so that the recording starts before its scheduled start time, and stops after the scheduled stop time. This padding is called Soft Padding the the Beyonwiz user interface and documentation.
The Beyonwiz manual describes Soft Padding setup in chapter 9. Advanced Setup, section 1-4 PVR. 2) Soft Padding
Soft Padding can help with the problem of programs running beyond their schedule, though some "reality TV" shows are notorious for running a long time past their scheduled end time.
To set padding: go to SETUP>Misc.>PVR, navigate to Soft Padding, and select Enable. Then navigate to Pre-Padding, and select the amount of padding you want before the scheduled start time of timers, and then navigate to Post-Padding and select the amount of padding you want after the scheduled end time of timers.
Padding is applied to all timers except the "instant" timers that are created by pressing the RECORD button on the remote while you are watching Live or Timeshifted TV. All other timers, whether manually created from POPUP>Timer List>New Timer, from the EPG, or by IceTV Interactive, have padding added to them.
Once a timer has started, it is extended to its full padded length, and the "soft" padding is "frozen" and it can only be changed through the normal mechanism for changing the length of a running timer.
What padding should I use?
There's no one answer to the "right" settings for these padding values. It's a trade-off between the extra space you use on your HDD against how likely you are to miss part of the program. Common settings are 2-5 minutes for pre-padding and 10-30 minutes for post-padding. There are some posts of examples of people's padding setups in Padding Priority - Which do you use?
What are the limitations of padding?
Pre- and Post-padding set the desired extra time before and after the scheduled time for a program. So, for example, if Pre-padding is set to 5 min and Post-padding is set to 15 min, a timer set to record a program from 20:00 to 21:00 will normally run from 19:55 to 21:15.
However, padding on Beyonwiz PVRs is limited by two recording rules:
- they cannot make more than two recordings at once; and
- it's only possible to make one recording of any service (you can't have two simultaneous recordings both recording, say, Seven HD).
Timers themselves can't be set up to conflict with either of the rules above, but the padding on the timers may conflict with them. When this happens, another padding setting is used to set the way the conflict is resolved.
Soft Padding Priority in SETUP>Misc.>PVR>Soft Padding allows you to change the behaviour of the padding when padding conflict happens, but I don't consider that any of the options actually "do the right thing".
None: Post-padding continues for the first timer until it either completes, or the scheduled start time for the second timer begins. In this mode the scheduled time for each timer will always be recorded in full.
Pre-padding priority: The second timer will start at the beginning of its pre-padding time, stopping the first timer, even if the first timer is still within its scheduled time.
Post-Padding priority: The first timer will continue to run to the end of its post-padding, and stop the second timer from starting until then, even if that causes the second timer to start after the end of its scheduled start time.
The poll mentioned above had about 2/3 of the respondents using None and 1/4 using Post-padding.
Some examples of padding conflicts and resolution.
This first example shows a padding conflict caused by the rule that only one recording of a service may be made at a time.
Code: Select all
= Timer setting
+ Padding
* Timers with conflicting padding
^ Time span of padding conflict
Desired padded recordings
Service Set Timer Desired timer
ABC1 20:00-21:00 19:55-21:15 * +============+++
ABC1 21:00-22:00 20:55-22:15 * +============+++
Padding conflict ^^^^
Actual padded recordings
Service Recording time Padding priority
ABC1 19:55-21:00 ============= None
ABC1 21:00-22:15 ===============
ABC1 19:55-20:55 ============ Pre-padding
ABC1 20:55-22:15 ================
ABC1 19:55-21:15 ================ Post-Padding
ABC1 21:15-22:15 ============
Code: Select all
Desired padded recordings
Service Set Timer Desired timer
ABC1 20:00-21:00 19:55-21:15 * +============+++
Seven SD 21:00-22:00 20:55-22:15 * +============+++
Nine SD 20:00-22:00 19:55-22:15 +========================+++
Padding conflict ^^^^
Actual padded recordings
Service Recording time Padding priority
ABC1 19:55-21:00 ============= None
Seven SD 21:00-22:15 ===============
Nine SD 19:55-22:15 ============================
ABC1 19:55-20:55 ============ Pre-padding
Seven SD 20:55-22:15 ================
Nine SD 19:55-22:15 ============================
ABC1 19:55-21:15 ================ Post-padding
Seven SD 21:15-22:15 ============
Nine SD 19:55-22:15 ============================
Code: Select all
Desired padded recordings
Service Set Timer Desired timer
ABC1 20:00-21:00 19:55-21:15 * +============+++
Seven SD 21:00-21:55 20:55-22:15 * +============+++
Nine SD 21:00-22:00 20:55-22:15 +============+++
Padding conflict ^^^^
Actual padded recordings
Service Recording time Padding priority
ABC1 19:55-21:00 * ============= None
Seven SD 21:00-22:15 * ===============
Nine SD 19:55-22:15 ================
ABC1 19:55-20:55 * ============ Pre-padding
Seven SD 20:55-22:15 * ================
Nine SD 19:55-22:15 ================
ABC1 19:55-21:15 * ================ Post-padding
Seven SD 21:15-22:15 * ============
Nine SD 19:55-22:15 ================
Code: Select all
Desired padded recordings
Service Set Timer Desired timer
ABC1 20:00-21:00 19:55-21:15 * +============+++
Seven SD 21:00-21:55 20:55-22:15 +============+++
Nine SD 21:00-22:00 20:55-22:15 * +============+++
Padding conflict ^^^^
Actual padded recordings
Service Recording time Padding priority
ABC1 19:55-21:00 * ============= None
Seven SD 20:55-22:15 ================
Nine SD 21:00-22:15 * ===============
ABC1 19:55-20:55 * ============ Pre-padding
Seven SD 20:55-22:15 ================
Nine SD 20:55-22:15 * ================
ABC1 19:55-21:15 * ================ Post-padding
Seven SD 20:55-22:15 ================
Nine SD 21:15-22:15 * ============
When the overlap is because of consecutive timers on one service, the problem with all of these choices is that no matter which you chose, you're likely to get the end of the first program recorded in the first part of the second recording, or the start of the second program recorded in the end of the first recording. There's no way to guarantee that it won't happen, and the fact that now many commercial broadcasters run straight from the end credits of one program into the start of the next program, with the first ads in the second program coming a few minutes later, means there's little margin for error.
There are three workarounds if the clash is because of consecutive timers on the same service:
- Adjust the timers manually (taking the padding rules into account) to make the switch between recordings at your best guess at the actual start time for the second recording - this has the same problem as the automatic padding, but at least you can make your guess based on how late the second program usually starts. You can only do this with recordings set up on the Beyonwiz. You can't do this with IceTV Interactive.
- Combine the two timers into a single timer. The simplest way to do this is to use the EPG to set the timer, then manually adjust it to cover both programs - unfortunately, it's not possible to do this with IceTV Remote, and if you're a watch-and-delete household, the second program might get deleted accidentally.
- Record one program on the SD service and one on the HD service, if at least one of the programs is simulcast on SD and HD.
- Play the recordings sequentially This works around the problem by accepting that the first show will run into the second recording. In the FilePlayer, use POPUP>Sorting Order>Oldest -> Newest, if you don't normally use that sort order in the FilePlayer. If you have SETUP>Misc>FilePlayer>Auto Play Next enabled, the second recording has finished, and the the two recordings follow each other in the FilePlayer list, just press OK to play. Otherwise, use the BLUE Select button to select the two recordings that had the timer conflict, then OK to play. This will play the first recording, followed by the second recording, with a short interruption (less than a second) between them. That way it doesn't matter so much that the program is split over two recordings. If you watch the shows at different times, this may also cause problems if you like to watch-and-delete.
If the first program being recorded of a pair of recordings (where Padding Priority needs to change the desired timers) is running further late than the second recording, there are no timer possible timer settings either using automatic padding, or using completely manual timers settings, that will record all of both programs. Time to get another recorder
The following is an example of the kind of delay where it is impossible to record all of the ABC1 20:00-21:00 program and all of the Seven SD 21:00-22:00 program on a single dual-tuner Beyonwiz PVR (or any dual-tuner PVR), no matter what the pre- and post-padding times are, or what the padding priority setting is. It's impossible to record these programs correctly even if you know ahead of time exactly how late the programs will be running.
Code: Select all
= Timer setting
+ Padding
* Timers with conflicting padding
^ Time span of padding conflict
1 Actual run time of ABC1 program scheduled 20:00-21:00
1 Actual run time of Seven SD program scheduled 21:00-22:00
X Other program content
! Program content that couldn't be recorded
Desired padded recordings
Service Set Timer Desired timer
ABC1 20:00-21:00 19:55-21:15 * +============+++
20:10-21:10 XXX111111111111X Actual program time (10 min late)
Seven SD 21:00-22:00 20:55-22:15 * +============+++
20:05-21:05 XX222222222222XX Actual program time (5 min late)
Nine SD 20:00-22:00 19:55-22:15 +========================+++
Padding conflict ^^^^
Actual padded recordings
Service Recording time Recording contents Padding priority
ABC1 19:55-21:00 XXX1111111111! None
Seven SD 21:00-22:15 X222222222222XX
Nine SD 19:55-22:15 ============================
ABC1 19:55-20:55 XXX111111111!! Pre-padding
Seven SD 20:55-22:15 XX222222222222XX
Nine SD 19:55-22:15 ============================
ABC1 19:55-21:15 XXX111111111111X Post-padding
Seven SD 21:15-22:15 !!!!2222222222XX
Nine SD 19:55-22:15 ============================
Thanks to tonymy01 & grampus for useful suggestions.
Updated: 8 Mar 2010